On this Feb.(2017). Lunar New Year’s end. Spazz Society has invite RVIVR for their first show in Taipei,Taiwan . An energetic, melodic, political, queer punk rock group from Olympia, Washington.

Being a influential band.They put a lot effort in defense of gender equality and queer issues. Living in an far east island country. We also pay much attention on this issues and doing a lot act as our possible . So we take this chance to have an interview with them. Erica Freas（guitarist/vocalist）on behalf of the answer. Sharing the band in the defense issues problems encountered in the face and the way. Talk about their own “fight” in the contemporary punk scenes. Many thanks for her kind words. it’s really encourage us,and let us keep going on the way to “change”.

Q1. There’s a lot of Taiwanese fans are excited to see RVIVR. And also some is first time to hear about you. Would you like to say something to both of them?

Erica – It is an honor to come to Taiwan and a first time for all of us. Thanks for inviting us to come rock out with you.

Q2. Before you start to manager the tour this time.Would you ever hear about Taiwan before? If so,What is your impression of Taiwan? Is there anything in particular you want to do when you are here?

E – We are arriving pretty naive to Taiwanese culture. I had some school mates when I was a kid who had immigrated from Taiwan. Had language dates with a Taiwanese kid in college so he could practice English. We have a friend who’s grandparents fled to Taiwan from China before he was born and he lived in Taipei for a time. We are excited for good food and to be somewhere new.

Q3. You have toured in Japan before. On your observation ,what’s the most distinction between the West and the East in terms of punk scene and people? And there’s any similar part did you find?

E – We toured Japan for ten days and that is not enough time to really understand the differences. There are many, of course, but there are also differences between punk scenes in the USA. The similarities felt comfortable: joining together for the love of sweaty, loud music across language barriers and cultural barriers. People in Japan were wonderful to us and the shows were very rad.

Q4. We all know Olympia has been a center of indie music and a number of legendary record labels, such as K Records and Kill Rock Stars. But it’s far away stories for us. We are all curious about the golden age.How does it feel to grow up in the scene? To what extent does the Olympia music scene affect your perspective?

E – It felt normal to grow up in Olympia because that was what I knew. It surprised me to discover, as an older teenager, that many aspects of the “scene” were known out in the world. Olympia is a town that has been inexpensive to live in and therefore people had more time/energy to create art and music. That is changing a bit with population and economic growth but it is still a special town with lots of punks, queers and freaks.

Q5. Can you recommend some of your favorite Olympia bands/musicians these days?

E – CC Dust. Bad Sleep. I am in a dry spell with Olympias music at the moment. There are more interesting things happening elsewhere.

※1 CC Dust

https://ccdust.bandcamp.com
※2 Bad Sleep

https://badsleepoly.bandcamp.com/releases

Q6. From your point of view, does the intention of your band focus on muisc itself orthe dissemination of sex and gender issues?

E – Music first, definitely. We just are writing about our lives and observations.

Q7. In your experience, is band an effective tool to propagate sex and gender issues since the contemporary context, sex and gender issues are different from the past, and so is music. In this part, what are your observations? what do you think about? and how do you execute practically?

E – like I said above, we just write music about how it feels to be alive. If you’re writing music that is about your life experience, it WILL resonate with other people and that is a good feeling. Gender has become a part of our identity as a band because we began asking show bookers to book bands with other women/queer people about 6 years ago and have been consistently vocalizing the importance of representation of marginalized identities. This makes the shows more interesting and breaks up the status quo of boys-in-bands.

Q7-2. It seems that the observations on sexism in modern days are not so direct like the past, because of the progression by some sort of “push” and the examination of political correctness. However, the discrimination is mixed up subtly with life experiences, and about “resistance”, it seems difficult to reappear the binary opposition like the past.

The riotous “resistance” in the past, now, easily becomes a mere “performance” but is hard to achieve the intention of rebellion and the deeper discussion. Sometimes when you do something but is misread and even people dont understood the intentions. In this aspect, what do you think and how do you practice?

E – I agree! If “Riot Grrl” happened today it would be way too binary and out of touch. It would be insufficient… but we needed Riot Grrl to happen, it helped to get to where we are today with understanding and empowering gender-flexibility and the expansion gender. Lots of people felt that Riot Grrl was a “cool kids” or “skinny femme girls” or “white girls” scene even when it was happening. This doesn’t mean it was bad. It means we can learn and do more and do better with future movements.

In radical subculture we can find ourselves surrounded by so many “rules” or so much “vocabulary” that help define things we are working to change. It is important to not get too attached to these rules and vocabulary because they are just tools and can often be exclusionary or overly academic. The rules and vocabulary should change as we learn together. More important should be the commitment to listening to each other and liberating ourselves from societal expectations based in patriarchy, heterosexism and intersecting issues like racism, classism and ableism that divide us where we should be joined.

Q8. Which bands, artists, scholars, theories or personal experiences influence you to discuss the sex and gender issues through your band? Could you tell us what motivate you guys to do this thing? We are interested to know about your personal stories.

E – Just life and learning from our own and our friends’ experiences. Being open-minded and desiring that people not be bound by assigned rules of how we are meant to act or express ourselves. I love reading science fiction by women.

Q9. Could you tell us about the sexism conditions you percieve presently in your hometown and all over the world? Since most people in Taiwan dont have the experience living in foreign countries, though we can approximately understand the conditions overseas, still would like to know more details about real life experiences.

E – It is so hard to convey that kind of nuance cross-culturally. I don’t know the right way to phrase it to make it make sense. I’ll just say that sexism is very real and present everywhere in the United States, like most of the patriarchal world, but there are areas of culture in the USA that are dedicated to unlearning and changing these unequal ways of expectation and behavior. It is imperfect but a work-in-progress, it won’t happen in our lifetimes but it is worth working for.

Q10. Were you influenced by the Riot Grrrl Movement? What is your perspective on the Movement?

“Riot Grrrl” in Taiwan nowadays is viewed as a cool symbol, but actually

the “Riot Grrrl” movement is not as flourishing as the Rock ‘n’ Roll, Punk movement ( Male-dominated) in Taiwan ( but its not that ” flourishing”).

The “Riot Grrrl” movement remains sluggish because in Taiwan there are not so much gender awareness in underground music scenes. Patriachy hegemony in heterosexism has still dominated in this community.

E – I’m going to skip to the end of your question: people of all genders need to get involved in dismantling patriarchy. Women/queer/non-gender conforming people need to lead the direction of how that process happens, we must be listened to and believed about our experiences. Anyone within a scene can help by making room for people with marginalized identities by stepping back, inviting those people in, noticing when shows/scenes are dominated by certain people to the exclusion of others and speaking up to change that. It is hard and feelings can be hurt by change. Remember that we, as people fighting to be included, are also capable of excluding and that your heart may be in the fight for equality while your actions continue to speak discrimination. You have to be open to hearing this and learning from this or else it is just a performance and things will not change.

Q11. In my observation, Matt seems to have a more feminine character and Erica is more masculine. According to the Punknews interview, Matt mentioned using the biological male identity to make others listen to you. In the case of men with feminine characters and women with masculine characters, whose voice do you think is taken more seriously? Does the male femininity also allows you to take advantage of physical man? We would like to hear more of your experience and observation.

E – First of all, “Mattie” is Mattie Jo’s name, she doesn’t go by “Matt” anymore. This question is hard because we don’t think of ourselves that way, as the masculine one and the feminine one. I have noticed that our voices have a different effect at different times and, as a band, as a whole, we work pretty well to balance each other out. I like this question because it made me think about our gender presentations from a new and different angle, it is wonderful to be in friendships that allow us to change and shift over time.

Q12. Have you ever been verbally attacked by opponents due to pushing this issue? If so, how did you deal with them?

E – Oh yea, of course! You can’t advocate for change without experiencing backlash from people who want things to remain the same or be more like the status quo. Over the past 8 years we had many different tactics for this kind of conflict: we’ve had aggressive yelling fights, online battles, but these days it’s rare that we get attacked and our approach is calmer and less defensive. We’re more established as a band that values social justice and equality so it doesn’t surprise people when we ask for behavior or conditions that support those values. It’s 100% worth it to navigate that conflict in order to speak up for social change.

Q13. Nowadays the “feminism” and “gender equality” movements appear to be at its peak in global trends, but sometimes I have an impractical feeling like the excessively political correctness (I’ve seen the “rape apologist” on Erica’s blog) and the invasion of consumerism. What do you think?

E – I think we’ve got to continue through impractical and frustrating trends in a social change movement and know that we are learning collectively and that sometimes will look awkward. I learned so much from the situation of being interpreted as being “rape apologist” for speaking about “transformative justice” (or how to approach accountability while sharing community with people who cause harm) on the mic. Most of all: it’s ok to mess up and misspeak. It’s important to keep speaking and to learn from our mistakes. It can feel like if you mess up, you’ll be devoured by political correctness and must disappear or never speak again. That is ridiculous. None of us is perfect, we are learning as we live and therefore we must keep speaking and learning and know that sometimes people won’t like what we say. Sometimes it will cause hurt and then we can choose to apologize and learn or dismiss is as “not-my-problem.” I think it’s better to learn why I caused hurt than to dismiss it, while being forgiving with myself as an imperfect person. That was hard to learn but I’m happier now because of it. I’m less scared of getting “called out”.

Q13-2. Talk about our situation in Taiwan , we have a lot pressure from many side. sometimes people consider us too “radical” and “political correctness . but for the other side. People who within the issue community is critical of we are not enough “radical” and “political correctness. (laugh) . For me, the most pressure is not from the mainstream society,but is from the inside of issue community. But I think the “real” discuss is the most important thing. even it will be how “unpolitical correctness”. These impact seems to be ordinary during the issue discuss. Like Eric’s rape-apologist. incident. is seems reflect this situation.

E – If you believe in what you are doing and say and you believe in the change you are trying to reflect with your actions then you are doing fine. It is up to you. Someone will always think you’re not enough or should be doing something different. Sometimes it will be a “radical” thinking your too tame, sometimes it will be a “conservative” thinking you speak up too much and should be put back in your place. It is up to you.

Q14. Erica could you say a little more about the rape issue?

E – There were several variables that occurred at once: we were at a hardcore show with loads of young men with their shirts off really being macho. We had heard a statistic on the radio in the van that was in regards to how many teens sexually assault each other. There was an anonymous zine on the merch table written by a man who had raped a woman, writing about his experience finding a therapist and following through on the accountability that was needed from him in regards to his assault. I thought about how statistically there were at least few people in the room who had sexually assaulted other people. I said that the zine was on the table and that it was “brave” to be an assaulter that follows through on doing the right thing in an assault: listening to the person they hurt and doing what is asked to make it right.

Someone in the room was hurt by how I said that, felt that by saying the word “brave” I was prioritizing the needs of rapists over survivors. I should have said it differently, with more awareness. I stand by the underlying sentiment: most assaulters don’t make good on their assault or even admit to it. I like hearing the voices of people who own that they made a mistake and are willing to work to make it better, I think that kind of role modeling makes it possible for other people to get over the fear and be accountable for hurting people.

I believe rape and rape culture dominates most of the world I live in and I want it to end. We women can speak up against it, and change the ways we participate in it, but I believe the responsibility for changing it is not on the shoulders of the survivors of rape and rape culture. Men should be taught the importance of consent, respect for women and how to be in community with us without objectifying us or seeing us as lesser or incapable. We are so strong. It is a triggering conversation but I believe we will get better at talking about ending rape culture if we continue rather than shutting up because we’re not doing it perfectly.

Q14-2.Let me talk about my feeling, I think your approach is more like that the oppressed and the marginal can find the objects to project and to identify with. They can know that they can have their own bands or do whatever they want to do rather than let the typical heterosexual males occupy the places of in variety of texts, songs, roles and works around the world, and it will make the world no longer a single-values world spinning around the center of phallocentrism.

E – yes! And that we don’t need to wait for permission to begin.

Q15. What do you think about Donald Trump? After the election,did there have any impact about the gender issues and race issue?

E – It’s terrifying. We are experiencing a Corporate, Ethno-Nationalist take over and it’s making everyone take a step back and notice where we had stopped fighting for equality and liberation, we are complacent in taking comfort for granted. A lot more people are going to be hurt by the actions of this government, both inside and outside the USA. I just hope it pushes the rest of the world to have more integrity and justice, more measures for global welfare.

Q16. Finally ,could you say a few words to “female”,”queer” and various underprivileged groups or the people who occupy the world’s mainstream values and discriminate against others?

E – you are powerful and your actions matter. If you know how it feels to be discriminated against, don’t be an agent of discrimination against others. Learn about “Intersectionality” or the ways that marginalized experiences can be happening in layers at the same time. In other words: if you are trying to work for gender equality while ignoring racism/ableism/class struggle, figure out how to include it all because they all feed each other. All of us or none of us, that’s how it’s gotta be.

Interview by Spazz Society
Photography by Annica Panna